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Just Wondering What This Community Thinks: I think the show should have gone on!! [Sep. 28th, 2006|12:13 pm]
Persian Muslims
persian_muslims
[raysblacksite]


Opera Cancelled Over Depiction of Mohammad

Severed Heads in IDOMENEO Imperil Opera Chief's Job


I don't know anymore. You know, I am going to make a new year's resolution right here and right now. And that resolution is to NOT go off the deep end and unleash the unholy power of Ray's flame thrower on those with whom I disagree with. Anyway, this past weekend Germany has been rocked, rattled and rolled by the Political Correctness Gestapos (hereinafter PCG).

Look, I don't know anything about theater and I don't know much about the arts. The theater, for me at least, is where I go to see movies.....where Ahnuld just blows shit up. But even there, in the movies we are going to see them for two reasons: 1) escapism if we are going to see the Dukes of Hazzard movie and 2) a healthy discourse between ideas. I believe that Chancelor Merkel also said that as well.

If we are going to allow people in other countries to dictate to us what we can and cannot perform in our own theaters, then we should all just walk into our halls of government and throw our democratic governments in the trash. If that is the case, we don't need freedom of speech. We need a dictatorship. Look, it is one thing to urinate on the Koran during an interogation. It is quite another when there is an intellectual display of ideas that are forced to struggle with each other thus forcing us to question, to question some more and to come up with our own ideas and our own set of conclusions.

I don't know about the rest of you, but there was a similar thing in New York. Some artist had the Virgin Mary on display covered in shit. That was art - according to the artist. There was a big stink about it. But at teh end of the day, no embassies were burned down, city hall did not declare martial law.......why? Because we understood that it was just a painting. So what.......

Look, in the play even Jesus' head was severed. I don't see the Christians complaining; it is a play, they understand that. They do get it. When Da Vinci code came out, some people thought it was offensive......BUT THEY STILL WENT TO SEE IT.

All kinds of art is offensive to some and appealing to others. Some think that Marilyn Manson is offensive...I like the guy. Some think that Ozzy Ozbourne is offensive...the guy rocks.

Its art dude.....no one has to die for it. I think that my bullshit meter says it all......

linkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: uberism
2006-09-29 12:06 am (UTC)
did anyone die from the pope comments?
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From: raysblacksite
2006-09-29 01:05 am (UTC)

Yes Someone Did Die....

Read this article about the person killed because of the Pope's comments:

http://www.geocities.com/journalspacestuff/Nun_Shot_Dead_In_Somalia.pdf

The article has been converted to PDF format and link to original article provided.....
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: uberism
2006-09-29 04:16 am (UTC)

Re: Yes Someone Did Die....

Well, judging from the fact that it's somalia, i think that the pope's comments were secondary to the fact that the country is in the middle of a long civil war.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: uberism
2006-09-29 04:20 am (UTC)

Re: Yes Someone Did Die....

and, the thing is, the muslim world was not this easily outraged, as a whole, before the war on terror.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
From: raysblacksite
2006-09-29 04:32 am (UTC)

Re: Yes Someone Did Die....

But Uberism, that is just the point. That is exactly my point.

My friend Hamid, myself and his brother Reza were discussing this over dinner at his house the other night and his mom said something very interesting. I was floored when I heard it.

she said that Muslims are always good at one singular thing: that is losing opportunities. Do you remember the Mohammad Cartoons in Denmark? Well, the cartoons - however offensive they may be - was a perfect opportunity for the Muslim world to say, "Hey, look, we understand it is a cartoon, but the fact of the matter is that our religious leader, Prophet Mohammad, does not advocate suicide bombings!"

The question is really this, and I think Glen Beck also put this question to his viewers on TV: what is a non-muslim to think when he sees such an outburst? In the immediate aftermath of the Mohammad cartoons, Embassies were raided and people were killed. The people that died in the Embassy had NOTHING to do with the cartoon. Hell, they didn't even publish it.

Looking at the reaction, I was saying to myself that there is a glaring discrepancy: 1) Islam preaches tolerance, patience and forgiving; 2) it teaches that innocent life should not be taken; 3) when your enemy has his back turned to you, you have no right to kill him.

These are beautiful teachings.....but looking at them and placing them side by side, I am left to wonder. Now, this gets to a deeper portion of the argument. On the one hand you have Muslims saying that terrorists like bin Laden represent a small fraction - almost negligible - of the muslim world....so much so that it is just a small group of nut jobs. Well, that assertion is almost thrown to all hell in the face of these violent and often times fatal riots.

Your point regarding the circumstances of Somalia is well-taken. But nonetheless her death is connected to the pope's comments. Whether it was secondary to the civil war or not, it was in retaliation.

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[User Picture]From: uberism
2006-09-30 05:18 am (UTC)

Re: Yes Someone Did Die....

When I made that correlation, I was trying to point out that the Muslim world feels like a bullied kid right now and will take any opportunity it can to turn the finger pointed at them right back around.

Because, simply said, there was none of this nonsense before the wars in the middle east.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
From: raysblacksite
2006-10-01 05:49 pm (UTC)

Re: Yes Someone Did Die....

I agree with you, the Middle East is exploding right now. . . . and acting like a bullied kid. . . . Harris and Klebold were bullied kids....would you agree with what they did in columbine?

The shooter in Montreal may have been a bullied kid....would you agree with that as well?

The Iraq War and the Afghan wars are what they are. But to take the lives of innocent people who have no apparent connection to the conflict is appaling.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: uberism
2006-10-02 02:15 am (UTC)

Re: Yes Someone Did Die....

See, it's easy for you to look at the situation and take the high moral route living here in the us, not living through the effects of western politics like they do. Everything bad in the world essentially is being pinned down on the middle east. And the middle east is not bombing america to the point of death by the average muslim as your analogies would seem to suggest.


Are you trying to say that the Iraq and Afghan wars don't take innocent lives that have no apparent connection to the conflict?
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From: raysblacksite
2006-10-02 02:29 am (UTC)

Re: Yes Someone Did Die....

how does my analogy suggest that?

I was merely responding to your analogy. You said that the M.E. is acting like a bullied kid. Then I countered your analogy by presenting Columbine. I think the message that was lost was that the response of the Middle East - in the context of 9-11 - seems to be an over-reaction.

I don't even dare to assume that innocent lives aren't taken in the Middle East. I can't even imagine what it would be like to live in a war-torn country. When my internet goes down, I want to strangle verizon. Imagine what it is like to only have electricity for 6 hours every day (Iraq).

All I am saying is that what we see is a cataclysmic geo-political earthquake in the middle east.

What is very special about your country is that while the map of the middle east has been drawn and re-drawn over and over again through out time, the borders of the Iran are the only country that have not been changed....granted that the Persian Empire receded, but the borders have not changed.

You know, our problems can be traced to 1953.

But I will say this, I want my country to do all it can to maintain its global hegemony.

ray
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From: raysblacksite
2006-10-02 02:51 am (UTC)

Re: Yes Someone Did Die....

Why would it seem that it is easy for me to take the high moral route?

Because I live in a comfortable place? Because I have a roof over my head?

And who said everything bad is being pinned on teh M.E. no one said that. But it seems everything bad is happening in the middle east.

What gets me is this: the fire and intensity that you guys have when it comes to protesting against the US can be devastating if you actually take that anger and rage and aim it at the Mullahs, the clerics.

Dude, these guys have given Iranians a bad name.

I think I told you about my friends Reza and Hamid. They get upset when I call then Iranians. They prefer Persians. Why? Because of teh connotations:

Iranians = 1979 Hostages.
Persians = Beautiful Rugs, aromatic spices and great food, etc.

it is a sad day when you guys can't be who you are because of a few whack job Mullahs.

Again, I will probably be accused of taking the high moral route.

I have debated and debated and debated with hundreds of people in my time. A bit of advice: in an argument, NEVER attack the person (as you did me, because of where I live), attack the argument.

Try to take me down with the force of my own argument......as Bruce Lee did with his opponents. He took them down with the force of their own punches.

It is a sign of no counter-strike capacity when you resort to ad-hominem attacks. Look it up.

ray
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From: raysblacksite
2006-09-29 04:38 am (UTC)

Re: Yes Someone Did Die....

it is a quarter to one, so if my writing is a bit off....it is the ungodly hour that I am writing this......

when the teachings of Islam are placed side by side with the actions in the Muslim world in relation to the cartoons and other things, I am simply left to wonder....


(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: 3arabi
2006-09-30 12:04 am (UTC)

Hey Ray

I understand your point that the muslim is actually not that good of representation of the what Islam really is. But on the other hand you have to understand that they have no other means of expressing them selves. Every other day there is a country somewhere that is throwing shit at our religion. I'm with you, killing innocent people is not the answer, but the embassies of those countries are the closest thing they have to the actual country. France bans the Hijab for women, now you got some nut job blowing up prophets. To me that's not art at all, I honestly think that people here in america mis-use the wonderful advantage they have here of 'freedom of speech' & 'liberty' and what not.
come on now, how is painting the virgin mary covered in shit art? seriously now, thats just wrong man.

So I'm with you at the fact that sometimes the reactions are a bit extreme, but you must keep in mind that what they are reacting to is pretty extreme in its self.

Have a good weekend buddy =)
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From: raysblacksite
2006-09-30 12:40 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

Ash, how are you? Long time no hear. How is Baltimore?

Like I said, I don't know what to make of it. Who is to say that freedom of speech is being taken too far? Look, this kind of stuff is like Howard Stern. You don't like him? Fine change the dial. Now I know that I have oversimplified the situation, but the bottom line is that it is happening in someone else's country and if they don't like it, it is none of their business. Don't go see the show.

Also, I can take my rights as far as I want to as long as it does not violate YOUR rights. In my graduate law classes the adage is that my rights end where yours begin. It is my right to chop the head off Jesus Christ and put his head on a stick if I want to. Have I physically harmed you? Have I endangered you? Have I caused you physical pain or endangered the lives of anyone else? No.

But if on the other hand, I chop Jesus' head and put it on a stick and then yell FIRE in teh theater....that is not allowable. Freedom of speech stops there.

ANALOGY TIME:

If I enjoy throwing darts at Jesus' head, and pinning the tail on Abe Lincoln and I do this in my own home, who the hell are you to tell me that I am wrong and blow up my mailbox?

Hey, look my Flag gets burned on a daily basis and it pisses me off, but do you see me going in and holding up the local Kabab house (Fan-fucking-tastic food by the way)? But you know what? Burning my flag is his right. It is a form of speech. But just know that I will exercise my freedoms to check that......

Speeking of rights and legality, is it legal for Aishwarya Rai to be THAT hot?
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[User Picture]From: 3arabi
2006-09-30 08:16 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

You are absolutly right Ray, it is your right to chop of jesus's head (that sounded kind of weird to say), but as you said your rights end where mine begin, meaning you 'shouldn't' be chopping of prophet's Mohammed's head (asw) and expect me to give you a standing ovation! you see. As for the burning of the american flag, well.. they did it in reatleation to what the US has been doing. its not like we got up in the morning checked our to-do list and were like "its burn a foreign flag day" you know! =)

and yes it is illegal for Aishwarya Rai to be the THAT hot & I absa-fucking-lutly agree that Kaba House rules =)

so.
hows your weekend so far? =)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
From: raysblacksite
2006-09-30 12:48 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

By chopping off Jesus' head, I don't mean a living breathing Jesus...I mean a figurine.

And also, throwing horse shit at the Virgin Mary and then painting it may be art. Art is a matter of interpretation.

I have this painting at home, and if you look at it (i mean just seriously look at it) you will see sharks, ocean, a treasure chest and a sunken ship. Some people see exactly that, and others don't even see it. It is one of those funky art things......anyway, it is a matter of perception..

Dude...ur a musician...I am shocked that you would say that. Some say Manson's music isnt art, but hey i like it. My old man thinks that MetallicA sounds as if someone has just yanked James Hetfields' balls and all he is doing is screaming DON'T RIP MY BALLS OFF!!!! But to me it is music and I rock to it.

hope all is well bro. Keep rockin.

I think I am going Zoroastrian........those guys don't kill anyone.......LOL!
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[User Picture]From: 3arabi
2006-09-30 08:12 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

dude I AM a musician even though I'm not a big fan of MetllicA i LOVE GodSmack, they give kick-ass concerts man, if you ever get a chance CHECK THEM OUT. Manson isn't bad either, I like his cover of "personal jesus" .. and yea I kind of figured the chopping of the heads was figurative since i KNOW you can't do it personaly.. duuh.
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From: raysblacksite
2006-09-30 03:04 pm (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

Godsmack is the shit. Never saw 'em live. But I will make the effort.

When you are a starving academic and Ph.D bound, you kinda have to rob a bank to see a concert....LOL.

I did see MetallicA in New Jersey during their Summer Sanitarium tour with Linkin Park, Limb Bizkit, Mudvayne, Static-X and some other no name band loser that sounded like he was getting tortured.

I like the Godsmack Army ads that they have.....
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[User Picture]From: 3arabi
2006-10-01 01:50 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

Army?.. I though it was the NAVY, you know, accelerate your life and all =)

I really started respecting GodSmack when they had no problems being the opening band for metallica on the last tour they did. That just sky rocketed them to the top of my favorits list.

I had someone actually tell me that one of my songs "As it says" remineded him of GodSmack. That just blew my mind away. One of my dreams is to do a song with those guys, thier the best.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
From: raysblacksite
2006-09-30 12:50 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

I think that we just invigorated this dying page. What do you think? Im the only non-muslim non-iranian posting on this thing man.

Where are all the beautiful Iranian honies?
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[User Picture]From: 3arabi
2006-09-30 08:10 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

you find any honies at this time bro, its Ramadan my friend =)
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From: raysblacksite
2006-09-30 03:00 pm (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

Well, there is this one woman, Iranian, named Mona. She lives in Montreal and I swear she has me wrapped around her finger....and Im lovin' it...

She is so beautiful...so sweet.

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[User Picture]From: 3arabi
2006-10-01 01:47 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

good for you buddy, they are pretty sweet.
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From: raysblacksite
2006-09-30 03:06 pm (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

I went to a masjid yesterday. It was pretty cool. I kept getting stared at......I think they wanted to kill me. INFIDEL IN THE HOUSE!!!!

OH SHIT!!
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[User Picture]From: 3arabi
2006-10-01 01:52 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

hahaah! NewYork is pretty intense for muslims in the first place. Hopefully next time you choose a more friendlier masjid, so are you a convert? or were you familiarizing your self with our religion?

Have a good one buddy =)
-Ash
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From: raysblacksite
2006-10-01 06:57 pm (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

i think this site has a pulse now
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[User Picture]From: 3arabi
2006-10-04 03:25 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

Wohoo! =)
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From: raysblacksite
2006-10-04 03:33 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

Nah......I have friends who were going, so I asked if I could tag along.....

Im thinking of going to Zoroastrianism......i am doing my research on it.....cool digs man. The first monothiestic religion of the world.

About that flag burning thingy: if someone wants to burn the flag, hey that is their right as it is guaranteed by the first amend.

I am a staunch supporter of free speech. I am an extremist in that sense.....

but fuck politics for a moment: you GOTTA SEE THIS CLIP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KScuosn2WqY

later bro!!!

-ray
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[User Picture]From: 3arabi
2006-10-05 03:22 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

what the heck was the all about! =)
the video wasn't tooo clear! thats the good thing for today because I'm in Ramadan, after I clicked on it and it started zooming in I was like "oh crap, I hope no naked lady will pop out!..at least not today" =)

I was just yankin your chain with the whole flag thing, i would never do such a thing, i love amercia too much. =)

later dude!
-ash
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From: raysblacksite
2006-10-01 06:55 pm (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

What they were reacting to is something that was being performed on German soil, thus of no consequence to them. . . . nor is it any of their business.

If I am saying shit about someone in my own home, that is my business. If I am talking about ur family in my home...again, that is my business. No one is allowed to tell me what I can and cannot say in my own home.

Again, I am over simplifying it, I know. But it is the heart of the matter. Muslims have burned my flag and that is extreme.....but you know, I haven't exactly burned down a Kabab house either.

Uberism says that the Middle East is reacting like a bullied kid: Harris and Klebold were bullied kids. Would you agree that what they did in Columbine? No......wait...would you? LOL....

But you cannot discount the fact that there are more educated Mullahs and Ayatollahs in the Middle East that are fanning the flames by inciting the uneducated masses. While leaders in the Middle East urge other people's sons and daughter to become Martyrs for the cause, they send their kids to be educated in American and Western Universities.

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[User Picture]From: 3arabi
2006-10-04 03:25 am (UTC)

Re: Hey Ray

Again, it seems that we are missing a connection =). Yea you do have the right to say what you want in your own soil, but this guy Televised it to the WORLD, I hardly see how it is any longer a 'German Issue' anymore, see what I mean. I'm sure lots and lots of people are already talking about us, but since we don't know what it is, we can't react to it. Again I'm agreeing with you that the reaction was a bit extreme, but it is part of our believe to stand up for what is wrong. Again burning the US flag and bombing innocent people is not the answer. I'm for boycotting products, peaceful marches, and working my ass off to get proof that what is said is not true.
And according to what your argument, its should be fine for us to burn the US flag, "since we're doing it at our home, not yours" =)
And no I'm not for colombine, I have a 15 year old brother who goes to school here, and I would not want it to happen to him, so why would I want it to happen to anyone else. "Love for your broter what you would love for your self" =)
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From: (Anonymous)
2006-09-30 03:33 am (UTC)
I would have to agree with Ray on this one. Ray and I do not get along when it comes to politics. He is a Republican with Republican ideas. Although he is not with the religious right at all.

If this kid walks into a church, he will burn much the same way a vampire would if he walked into day light.

Ray, mark this one in the books. we agree.

BTW, I need your thesis stuff. Let me know if i can use your data set. I will give you credit.

alexander
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From: raysblacksite
2006-09-30 02:58 pm (UTC)

Hey Alex

Alex what up kid?

I would love to help you on the thesis as much as I can. But the one thing I will not do is give you my data set. I put way too much effort, time and energy and I will not allow someone to take my data set and run with it.

Ur a trusted friend, but Im sorry. I cannot do that.

-ray
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